Derbyshire Fire and Rescue AuthorityMeeting
Thursday 8 February 2024
Public Questions and Responses
Questioner | Respondent | Subject | |
Mr A Cruttwell (x1) | Chair | Costs | |
Mr Mountain (x1) | Chair | Costs | |
K Wilson (x3) | Chair | Operational |
PUBLIC QUESTIONS
A member of the public may ask one supplementary question, arising from the answer in the original question, at the meeting.
There shall be a limit of 15 minutes upon the duration of the public question time at any one meeting, with no more than three minutes being allocated to each question.
Any question not considered at the meeting shall receive a written response.
Subject to the time limit for public question time, a member of the public may only ask up to three questions per meeting.
Copies of the questions will be circulated to all Members and will be made available to the public attending the meeting.
A. Questions from Mr Cruttwell (Received 29.11.2023)
1. In 2022 you instructed RealWorldHR to review 7 claims of bullying, harassment, intimidation and discrimination against senior management, including the Chief Fire Officer. Could you please give a full break down of cost incurred for this review. Could you also confirm who paid for the review?
Response:
The cost was less than £10,000 including VAT. This was paid by Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Authority.
Supplementary Question:
So less than £10,000, can you not be more specific than that?
Response:
Less that £10,000, and no I cannot. It’s regarding the commercial sensitivity, therefore if we start putting down how much things costs, this allows people to tender below that cost, therefore this is the answer we can provide.
No further supplementary questions were permitted.
The following question has been rejected because this relates to individual cases and, for the purposes of confidentiality, we do not comment on actions in relation to individual cases.
How can we believe that this whole process was fair and impartial when we don’t even know what was asked of RealWorldHR. Would the Fire Authority be open to a meeting behind closed doors, to discuss the review? This meeting would go a long way in helping these ex DFRS employees draw a line under it and move forward. It would also allow the Fire Authority to draw a line under it and concentrate on how to keep improving DFRS for its employees and the community.
Question from Mr Mountain (Received 22.01.2024)
What is the total cost of the last cultural survey carried out by DFRS?
Response:
The cost of the cultural survey was less than £20,000 including VAT.
Supplementary Question:
£30,000 has been spent in total for RealWorldHR and the Cultural Survey and there has been 7 people put complaints in around bullying and harassment, yet no interviews have taken place? We are still asking for an independent review.
Response:
An independent review will not be taking place. We have already had an independent review done on our processes and whether or not there is a systemic issue with bully and harassment within this Service and we have been told independently that there is not an issue.
B. Questions from K Wilson (24.01.2024)
1. In March 2023, the BBC and Guardian reported HMICFRS concerns that “bullying, harassment and discrimination was rife and “probably only the tip of the iceberg” across fire services in general. Can the Authority explain how they ensure (or would ensure) allegations made against senior officers and / or Fire Authority members are dealt with in an independent and transparent manner?
Response:
We have policies and procedures in place: the Discipline Policy and Procedure applies to staff and the Members Code of Conduct applies to Fire Authority Members.
Supplementary Question:
Considering the Police for example, they have the IOPC that have oversight where required of any investigations into allegations of Police staff of any rank, the investigations and outcomes are published, would DFRS Authority be willing to publish such allegations to ensure transparency of this service?
Response:
I’ll have to get back to you on that question, not all complaints to the Police made about Police Officers go to the IOPC, they are dealt with internally, and I know these disciplinary matters were never made public.
2. The Fire and Rescue Authority (Police and Crime Commissioner) (Application of local Policing Provisions, Inspection, Powers to trade and consequential amendments) Order 2017, s24 requires the Chief Fire Officer to secure good value for money in the exercise of their functions. As first pump response times in life threatening calls have consistently been only at 80% and second pump response is 73%-78%, how can the Chief Officer / CEO say he is securing good value for money for the residents of Derbyshire when lives are being put at risk? (Stats from DFRS website)
Response:
We have a high response standard against the backdrop of a challenging geography in the County. This standard is underpinned by a large proportion of On-Call firefighters, which is the most efficient duty system in terms of cost. In continuing to provide value for public money, the Service is carrying out an Emergency Fire Cover Review this year, this will provide assurance on current resourcing levels and recommendations to provide even greater value.
Supplementary Question:
You said most efficient relating to cost, what about what is most efficient to life?
Response:
The question you asked is if we were value for money, that is the question I have answered. Every year we are examined by external Auditors, and these have never raised any issues regarding value for money.
3. You have on-call appliance availability of only 78%. My house is covered by on-call fire cover (Swadlincote station) for half of every 24 hour period, and the next nearest Derbyshire station is on-call (Melbourne). Can the Chief Officer / Derbyshire Fire assure me (a disabled veteran), that me and my family would be rescued in the event of a house fire when nearly a quarter of the time I potentially have no fire cover at all? I appreciate the stats county wide, but the question remains the same.
Response:
Again, this is an operational question, I cannot answer a question on behalf of the Chief Fire Officer or any of his staff. However, what I can say is that the On-Call availability over the last 3 months was at 99% at Swadlincote. We have reciprocal attendance agreements with all surrounding fire services and should Swadlincote not be available due to an earlier incident, Burton or Ashby De La Zouch could be asked to attend. As you have concerns would you consider the offer of a home visit from one of our Fire safety officers?
Supplementary Question:
I would be grateful if the details could be provided to my email.
From my research on public sources three quarters of the 2023 calendar year, Swadlincote was supplemented by wholetime Firefighters in the region of 500 to 600 hours, how is that good value for money?
Response:
It isn’t, but that’s where the safety becomes more important, I’d rather pay the additional cost and have the station cover than not have it covered at all.
